tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post6101857432191387482..comments2024-01-24T11:15:52.640-08:00Comments on Obscure Battles: Leuthen 1757Jeff Berryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-88013833948380080092016-08-05T12:47:31.478-07:002016-08-05T12:47:31.478-07:00Hi, Miki. In my compilation of these OOBs for thes...Hi, Miki. In my compilation of these OOBs for these articles, I try not to use Osprey as a first source, unless there is no other reference. For whatever reasons, the editors of that otherwise estimable series don't think it's important to always cite sources (though in this particular edition, they did cite older Duffy works in the bibliography). So I tend to rely first on those that do cite primary sources. For this OOB I primarily used Duffy's more recently published "Prussia's Glory", which does cite primary sources for OOBs. I must admit, that when it comes to mid-18th century military history, I have an academic bias toward Duffy. <br /><br />All that being said, I realize that for wargaming purposes, the accuracy of OOBs is not that important. And for many of my posts, those OOBs older than 200 years are often based on best estimates and may often vary depending on the source. But I hope this criterion of my own research and editing helps.<br /><br />And thanks so much for being a fan. Good gaming.Jeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-36415361223728111952016-08-05T04:27:47.815-07:002016-08-05T04:27:47.815-07:00Hi. I come back to this battle because I am reprod...Hi. I come back to this battle because I am reproducing it, starting from the map of Clash of Arms; I was reprinting counters by my own and I was checking the units present at that battles. The OSPREY booklet Rossbach & Leuthen 1757 at pag 38-40 represents the order of battle of Leuthen. I noticed that the Author didn't mention the Bevern Corp, and even not the Norman Dragoons and the Czetertritz Dragoons, while on the map on page62 they are represented. Is it a mistake? I say you reported them in your order of battle. Thanks Mikiirisbarbarescohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11050176152435044869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-9277469075752895312015-12-08T15:32:12.176-08:002015-12-08T15:32:12.176-08:00Thanks Jeff for your prompt and very specific repl...Thanks Jeff for your prompt and very specific replay. It helped actually a lot. And a discussion about this specific topic is quite rare, if not unique. So I started to draw my 30# regiment (actually very beautiful colors) and I will add to the attacking force. Considering my final goal to wargame this battle, I think I need to prepare the maximum number of battalions as possible.<br />I will ask other helps, if you don't mind, in case of doubts. For the moment a big thank you and I do renovate my sincere compliments for your work.. please keep on writing your blog. ciaoirisbarbarescohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11050176152435044869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-79387732662119386812015-12-08T10:00:32.155-08:002015-12-08T10:00:32.155-08:00Thanks for your compliments, Iris. Love the images...Thanks for your compliments, Iris. Love the images of your paper regiments. Very inspiring. <br /><br />Re: your question about which Prussian regiments actually participated in the battle, they all did. As you can see from the final map above, the Prussian line, inclined to the right and attacking in oblique echelon, did overlap the end of Prince Charles line. Some battalions on the extreme left may not have collided directly with any Austrian units, but their support in echelon to the more forward and righthand Prussian regiments was tactically vital to the integrity of the line.<br /><br />According to regimental legend (and numerous paintings in the following century) the Garde #15 and Grenadier Garde #6 regiments were the units that actually hit the village of Leuthen head on. However, as the echeloned line was still intact one can only assume that the flanking regiments to those (Kannacher #30 on the left and Carl #19 on the right) were also engaged in the village.<br /><br />As to where the Bavarian and Wurttemburgers fled to in response to the initial assault, one can only surmise. Probably up northeast in the direction of their base at Breslau. These would have been chased, if at all, by Zieten's cavalry (probably the hussars). Discipline in the infantry line would have been such that those units would not have broken off to chase down the Bavarians.<br /><br />Also, bear in mind that the Austrians during this time were not passive but were frantically scrambling to realign their front to the south. And Lucchesi's cavalry were also moving south to take the left of the advancing Prussian infantry in flank, so the withheld wing of that line was important to resist that charge. Though, as we've see above, the charge never struck home, intercepted in the flank as it was by Driesen's cuirassiers.<br /><br />I have to admit that I don't know if the second line in the Prussian array (including the mentioned Wurrtemberg #46) would have been engaged in combat. It was in support role and served as a rallying base for the first line to retire behind in the event of a check (which was not needed). Frederick was careful in husbanding his forces and is not likely to have committed his reserve line if they weren't needed.<br /><br />Hope this helps.<br /><br />Jeff<br />Jeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-62043495964604670762015-12-08T01:49:50.724-08:002015-12-08T01:49:50.724-08:00Dear Sir,
I really appreciated your fantastic blog...Dear Sir,<br />I really appreciated your fantastic blog, very detailed and with spectacular maps. The description of the battle is really breath-taking.<br />I would like to ask you your "tactical" aid. I am actually recreating this battle at one to one ratio (i.e. 1 papersoldier = 1 real man) and this puts me in some troubles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpfy_e16zOE); in particular: if the main attack was led by about 6.000 men (osprey) on the village of Leuthen, which units didn't participate to it ? (for instance Rgt 30 did it or not?) The Prussian battalions of grenadiers on the very right of the Prussian array did not participate to the assault, or they were busy with Nadasdy's troops ? The Wurtemburges and Bavarians totally fled and towards which direction? did some Prussian units follow them (and therefore the Prussian right wing didn't participate to the Battle for Leuthen?<br />As I am trying to solve this topics through suppositions, I consider that the attack on the village of Leuthen was led by also by the 30th Rgt that was arrayed in the middle between the Garde and Pannewitz regiments. Do you agree? The 46 Rgt Fusiliers Wuttemberg - according to your opinion - participated as well? this are some issues I cannot solve and that can make your battle "less obscure" going on a path no one before did. Sorry for the long text. Big Big congratulations and please keep doing this super fantastic blog . Ciao from Michele (paperbattles)irisbarbarescohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11050176152435044869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-72074777559114615332014-11-04T08:15:05.072-08:002014-11-04T08:15:05.072-08:00Awesome maps!Awesome maps!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01353609249024793973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-89357170439839726952014-07-01T17:23:18.258-07:002014-07-01T17:23:18.258-07:00Thank you, Hadik. Your compliments are so generous...Thank you, Hadik. Your compliments are so generous. <br /><br />Yes, I did make the maps. I've been making maps, in fact, since I was a kid. Tools I used were mostly Photoshop and InDesign (both Adobe CS5). For reference I relied on a combination of mosaics I pulled down from Google Maps satellite view, contemporary maps, and OOB deployment maps from sources like Christopher Duffy and Scott Bowden.Jeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-7525640731021340932014-06-25T09:27:04.990-07:002014-06-25T09:27:04.990-07:00Hello, just saw the info about your mapping on the...Hello, just saw the info about your mapping on the "About" page. Excellent info. I really enjoy looking at the maps. Hadikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15542872848684801647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-11360682115742157622014-06-25T09:22:17.188-07:002014-06-25T09:22:17.188-07:00The maps are excellent! Did you make them? Would...The maps are excellent! Did you make them? Would you mind sharing what tools you used?Hadikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15542872848684801647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-45716282293246027912014-06-22T18:40:05.524-07:002014-06-22T18:40:05.524-07:00Fantastic!Fantastic!Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774860249356733763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-22481432432078107712014-06-13T08:45:33.432-07:002014-06-13T08:45:33.432-07:00Thank you. Glad you noticed. It was several months...Thank you. Glad you noticed. It was several months of work and research, but it doesn't seem hard when you are loving doing it.Jeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-37366481369248832622014-06-13T08:12:59.183-07:002014-06-13T08:12:59.183-07:00I'm stunned at the level of detail, and I will...I'm stunned at the level of detail, and I will have to start rooting through older posts. I appreciate the hard work that went into it. Great job!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16285663488268274646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-73489396221892055562014-06-11T09:20:30.815-07:002014-06-11T09:20:30.815-07:00Thank you so much, Michael. I did enjoy doing this...Thank you so much, Michael. I did enjoy doing this one, though it took me a few months. Though I did it to please myself, I can't tell you how much it means that it pleased others, as well.Jeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-53023000613790253952014-06-11T06:53:14.975-07:002014-06-11T06:53:14.975-07:00The best one yet! I really enjoyed the new animati...The best one yet! I really enjoyed the new animations showing how units moved from one formation to another. Now only if you made computer games like those animations with real time movements I would love that. Great job!Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04343919946613936193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1403809316122064334.post-50189066973374764862014-06-06T20:19:08.946-07:002014-06-06T20:19:08.946-07:00Thank you so much, Conrad, for your nomination. I ...Thank you so much, Conrad, for your nomination. I visited your own blog and laughed a lot, in all the right places, I hope. Your enthusiastic endorsement made my day. <br /><br />I do think history would be a lot more accessible if it were funnier, or at least less reverent. <br /><br />JeffJeff Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09188876209461291938noreply@blogger.com